typealice

26 Aug, 2008

Wal Mart Moms ®

Posted by: typealice In: Baby| Gillian

Here’s something I don’t understand: people who don’t care about the environment. Now, I don’t expect everyone in the world to be a composting, recycling, cloth diapering, all-natural cleaning products, plastic-avoiding person (like I am), but the people who really, honestly don’t give a shit about doing ANYTHING? I don’t get you. How are you not racked with guilt? How do you dispose of your diapers and buy water bottles and use plastic grocery bags and just not care? Fuck the Earth! I’m all about CONVENIENCE!

Is it the money? Do you choose your ocean-polluting laundry detergent over a safer, biodegradable kind because it’s less expensive (it’s not always)? Do you choose to use disposable diapers because they’re cheaper (uh, they’re totally not- there’s not even a comparison)? What about your household cleaning products… oh man, the list goes on.

It doesn’t take a lot of effort to be a little more eco-friendly, and it really doesn’t cost a lot more either. It’s just about making different choices and sometimes changing the stores you shop in.

Ahhh, Wal Mart. You know, overall, I don’t really have a big problem with Wal Mart. I sometimes shop there for sewing supplies and we even bought an all-natural, 100% recycled mattress yesterday! BUT! Oh the absolute crap that they carry for parents. You go to the baby section and you can find almost everything you could possibly need for the first 6-12 months of the baby’s life if you want to be one of THOSE parents. The formula feeding, sposie diapers, plastic toys, ugly and polluted clothing, canned baby food parents. For the parents who don’t do any independant research, Wal Mart is probably their store of choice. Why go anywhere else?

These types of parents are right up there with the ones who don’t even try to breastfeed because it’s “gross” or whatever. Not even once! “Ewww! My tits are leaking!” was something I once read in a blog by a new mom. I could have throttled her.

I’m not sure what kind of parent I would have been if it wasn’t for a few key moms who I spoke to online. I’d never heard of co-sleeping before getting pregnant, certainly not with a newborn anyway, and the only thing I knew was that I was going to breastfeed. People tend to be clueless about pregnancy (I remember one newly pregnant woman asking what amniotic fluid was once in a forum I used to go to), it’s such a major thing with so many details you should pay attention to (advice I gave to a friend of mine whose wife just got pregnant, “For now, make sure she’s taking her prenatal vitamins, especially extra folic acid. Make sure she doesn’t eat a lot of tuna (too much mercury), that she doesn’t go near (used) cat litter, raw fish, unpasteurized milk or milk products, or deli meats. All are really horrible for pregnant women and can cause birth defects (or worse).”

Thanks to Rebecca, Ashley, Corrie and Kelly Marie, I am a far better parent than I likely would have been otherwise. I’d never heard of the term Attachment Parenting, but I basically just follow my instincts and it tends to fall under the guidelines that the Sears doctors write and talk about anyway. If I’d been surrounded by other kinds of parents (ie- the ones at the babycenter.com forums) who believe in plastic, CIO, sposies and cribs, I probably would feel pretty alone.

What I’m always surprised at are the amount of people who rally around other similar people who aren’t very “green” like in this comment section of another one of Sundry’s posts. It’s all “YOU GO GIRL! SCREW THE EARTH! Those lame eco-friendly people are so fucking judgmental!” And by making fun of us- um, aren’t you being judgmental too? Like one charming commenter said: “The Green Trolls (hee! Get it?) are more obnoxious on the internet than the Militant Nursing Advocates. And that says a lot.”

If it wasn’t for people talking about the Earth outside of their comfortable Earth-friendly circles (which is like preaching to the choir- why even bother?), there would be much fewer people with the know-how of what is good and what is bad. Some of it people don’t even realize- like did you know that fabric softener is bad? Do you still use it? (We don’t.) Do you care?

I totally don’t expect people to go to the extreme of being eco-friendly, as much as I’d love them to. People are selfish, people are lazy, people are broke, people are just apathetic. I’m not going to think you’re a horrible person, but I am going to wonder WHY you live the way you do. Why you think that you don’t have an impact, when you really do! Why you’re teaching your children a pretty bad way of living when you don’t have to. It’s about making simple choices.

45 Responses to "Wal Mart Moms ®"

1 | Danielle

August 26th, 2008 at 11:24 am

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When I was recently visiting my parents, I was getting pretty upset with the products these use around the house, the shitty food they eat and their lack of care for the environment. When I called them on it, they just rolled their eyes thinking I’m the hippy child of the family. When they asked my older brothers their opinions, both my brothers sided with me and my parents were just like .. blank stares. I just don’t understand how people don’t get it ?!?!

2 | Erica

August 26th, 2008 at 11:37 am

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I think that when the repercussions of their actions do not immediately affect themselves, selfish people choose to pretend as though there isn’t a problem. So long as their sposies are in landfills, they’re out of sight and out of mind.

I feel the same way about people who get their dogs from breeders. With 8 million dogs being euthed every year and countless others in shelters, how on earth can people contribute to the demand for creating more dogs?!?! Yet people continue to do it every day.

3 | typealice

August 26th, 2008 at 11:48 am

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Erica: great point. Especially when the dogs that are being bred are often the “designer” dogs who are a fashion accessory. STUPID.

4 | Sarah

August 26th, 2008 at 12:01 pm

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I’m really making giant strides (not just small steps) to be more eco friendly, and I LOVE it when I see others putting forth the same efforts, even small ones, because every little bit helps.
People who just “won’t” reduce/reuse/recycle because it’s “stupid” “won’t matter anyway” “too time consuming” “(fill in other lame dumbass excuse)” get under my skin with their pure ignorance and laziness.

It’s time for the WORLD to wake up and realize whats happening to our children, and our planet.

5 | Tayla

August 26th, 2008 at 1:58 pm

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FTW Gillian!!!

I LOVE how passionate you are. And while you learned so much from Ashley, and look up to her, I have looked up to you! (*Blush*)

It took a lot, and we’re still working on it, but we have been consciously changing our lifestyle to be more eco-friendly. We have not only Emmalee to think about, but future grandchildren, and so forth. Our actions impact many future generations, and I’m so much more conscious about that now.

6 | Tayla

August 26th, 2008 at 2:01 pm

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p.s. I could THROTTLE that one girl too. She is seriously the DUMBEST girl I have ever met. She asked for advice in the pp forum regarding giving her “starving” 4 month old cereal, didn’t wait for said advice, and told the forum how her baby LOVED cereal (and slept longer). Heather LOST it on her!! AND she’s planning on getting pregnant again right away too!

7 | Victoria

August 26th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

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Holy crap they call US (meaning people who give a shit about the consequences of our actions) mean and smug? Look in the mirror, for fuck’s sake.
I think those types of people need to stop being so self-centered, self-serving, and ignorant. Lack of environmental awareness and action just screams “I don’t give a shit about you, any other organisms on this earth, or future generations of such organisms because it’s INCONVENIENT for me”

8 | Danielle

August 26th, 2008 at 8:42 pm

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Products like the Diaper Genie don’t help awareness of what a baby’s waste do to the environment at all, yet they’re pushed upon new parents as a convenient way to rid a nursery from of their child’s elimination for up to 180 diapers.

I can see how its use could be convenient occasionally but really, how inconvenient is it to do an extra load of laundry per week to wash their child’s diapers during its first year of life? If its *that* difficult, there are diaper services available to do the dirty work for parents.

9 | siobhan

August 26th, 2008 at 9:14 pm

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I use homemade eco-friendly cleaners around the house; so, they are cheaper than buying chemical cleaners. I am wondering which laundry detergents or dishwasher detergents you have found that are comparable in price to their chemical counterparts? I pay almost double for eco-friendly dishwasher and laundry detergent.
I can kind of understand childless people who don’t give a fuck, but people who have children and still don’t care blow my mind.
Also in terms of motherly inspiration, you and Twwly have both influenced me so much. Reading your blog made me want to be a mother and reading the AP forums has guaranteed that I’ll be far better at it when it happens.

10 | typealice

August 27th, 2008 at 2:49 am

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Siobhan: I use a product called Down East:
http://www.bebbingtonindustries.com/down_east.html

For the HUGE jug of laundry detergent, it’s about $13, but I only use a fraction of the amount that they call for (which is also how I use regular detergent), because you honestly, honestly don’t need that much.

Then, in order to be extra eco-friendly, I go and get the same jug refilled at a local company called Homegrown Organics for even cheaper than it would be to get a new bottle.

As for dishwashing liquid, I haven’t found ANYTHING that is comparable. The only thing that makes me feel better is that the people over at SafeMama.com haven’t either…

http://safemama.com/2008/06/26/dear-safe-mama-the-first-edition/

Scroll down to the third or fourth question asked, and you can read about it there.

11 | Amanda

August 27th, 2008 at 5:29 am

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I LOVE HGOF!!! I cant wait until I am rich enough again (septemberish) to start purchasing from them again. I have to admit though, I do use a lot of paper towel (if I bother to remember to buy it) But I also use, flushable organic cat litter, hand wash all my clothes, Line dry all my clothes, make 90% of my food from scratch (including pasta sauces strait from the tomato), but then again Im not a mother yet…

12 | typealice

August 27th, 2008 at 6:18 am

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Danielle: I only have enough diapers to do us a day (sometimes a couple leftover), so I have to wash them every night and it’s no big deal at all. I don’t understand why people think it takes a long time to do them. It’s literally thirty seconds of work- to load them into the washer and then take them out and put them in the dryer. Seriously, it takes a zillion times longer to have to drive to a store and buy more when you’re out! :)

13 | Taryn

August 27th, 2008 at 7:35 am

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I have to agree with everything you’ve said here. I’m definitely a lurker of your blog and I would like to say that reading about your parenting has been very inspiring. I’ve learned from you what you learned from those other Mums, and I can’t imagine being one of “those” parents like you described. When I see them I actually feel ill, because to them being a parent seems like such a burden that they’re not willing to put the effort into their child’s life by being so actively involved like you’ve been with your son. It actually makes me wonder why those types of people have children at all, but since I don’t have my own I suppose I’m in no position to judge either way. In any event, I just wanted to share that I love reading your blog, and am really inspired by your experiences. Thank you!

14 | Elizabeth

August 27th, 2008 at 11:35 am

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Don’t you think it’s a bit of a jump to say that people who buy products that are not earth-friendly and who use plastic bags treat parenthood like a burden and should never have had children? While not environmentally responsible, buying convenience products for your children such as disposable diapers and prepackaged baby foods does not indicate a rejection of the responsibilities of parenthood.

Personally, we used disposable diapers and formula. Disposable diapers were mandatory at my son’s daycare when he was an infant, and we only used formula because we had to when he still wasn’t gaining weight properly after 4 months of exclusively breastfeeding. Not everyone who uses formula is simply doing it because it’s easier and more convenient. (I found it to be neither of those, for the most part.) Supplementing with formula was a decision that I agonized about and felt so guilty about, but in the end, the health of my child was more important than what I pictured as the ideal form of parenting.

As far as green cleaning products, I’ve tried the Clorox GreenWorks all-purpose cleaner, and I have to say that it works much better than the 409 I used to use, and it doesn’t have a terrible smell. For once, a cleaner actually smells fresh and clean! Our local grocery store doesn’t carry any eco-friendly dishwasher detergents except for the Palmolive Eco phosphate-free detergent, but it really hasn’t worked well at all, unfortunately.

15 | Jordan Meeter

August 27th, 2008 at 3:02 pm

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I agree with everything you said, except for one thing: All-natural/biodegradable laundry detergent is around $17-$20, whereas normal laundry detergent is around $7…

16 | typealice

August 27th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

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Jordan: I get mine for $13 and in a higher quantity than what $7 will get me.

17 | typealice

August 27th, 2008 at 3:27 pm

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Elizabeth: “Don’t you think it’s a bit of a jump to say that people who buy products that are not earth-friendly and who use plastic bags treat parenthood like a burden and should never have had children?”

NOWHERE did I say that people who don’t strive to be more eco-friendly SHOULDN’T HAVE CHILDREN. Please do not put words in my mouth or misinterpret what I’m saying.

I believe most parents want what’s best for their kids and hopefully most parents are “good” parents, regardless of the treatment of the Earth.

18 | mojavi at Simple Things

August 27th, 2008 at 8:41 pm

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i commented on the Sundry post.. and I was shocked. I tried to be nice about my comment for fear of being trolled! But I couldn’t believe what they were saying.

19 | Elizabeth

August 28th, 2008 at 5:45 am

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Taryn, when you say that the people that Gillian described, the “Wal-Mart Moms” as she called them, seem to treat parenthood “like such a burden,” it most certainly implies that you find them to be lacking as parents. And when you say that you “wonder why those types of people have children at all,” it is hardly an illogical assumption that you don’t think they should have had the children in the first place. When you question whether or not someone should have had children, it is hard not to “misinterpret” that to mean that you don’t believe they should be parents.

20 | Elizabeth

August 28th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

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Gillian, I think we both had a bit of a misunderstanding there. I was referring to a comment by Taryn, and you thought I was talking about you. When I read your response to my comment, I though it was her, and responded using her name.

I realize that you didn’t say Wal-Mart moms shouldn’t have children, and the first part of my comment was entirely related to Taryn’s comment.

21 | typealice

August 28th, 2008 at 7:11 pm

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Oh. Whoopsie! I misunderstood. Sorry!

22 | Elizabeth

August 28th, 2008 at 8:08 pm

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No problem! We both misunderstood!

23 | Ashley

August 29th, 2008 at 8:51 am

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Part of the responsibility of parenting to me is making informed decisions about products/practices that I apply to my kids. It happens that there are a lot of correlations between what I think is safest and what is eco-friendly (like detergents, foods, cleaners, clothes, etc).

While I agree that not using a cloth bag to pick up groceries does not mean that person shouldn’t have had kids, I often find myself wondering why the “at arms length” parenting style is so pervasive and the connections between that and “Walmart Moms”, armed to the teeth with items to pacify, sustain and entertain their infants and children… very few of which are in any way sustainable or otherwise “green”. When people seem bent on keeping their kids at arms length (emotionally and physically), I DO find myself wondering why they chose to have kids. It’s an interesting loop.

I have no problem investing more personal time and money seeking out, growing, or procuring items or foods that I feel are safer for my family and better for the environment. (But I personally spend less money eating better, I just had to be a little bit resourceful and find things outside of the supermarket). I mean, not only do I want to raise children who are conscious of the consequences & impact of their actions on the earth/others/whatever, I want there to BE a planet that is safe for them (and their offspring) to simply EXIST in.

24 | Ashley

August 29th, 2008 at 8:51 am

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PS. I really like the new layout!

25 | kellyMarie

August 29th, 2008 at 10:53 pm

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Thanks for the shout out! I wish I could say that I felt deserving of it. Of the 4 names I have become the least eco-friendly. The fact that I don’t have a supportive partner in this mission isn’t any help. But I’m conscious and trying my best, which is more than can be said of a lot of people. Our family still doesn’t understand that we aren’t down with plastic toys and I don’t have the heart to just get rid of brand new toys that he is given. So we turn from a wooden/sustainable toy family into a family with various plastic toys. *sigh*

I think this post has actually inspired me to work harder at being the earth crusader that you seem to think I am.

26 | typealice

August 30th, 2008 at 5:15 am

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Kelly: It’s more about your AP philiosophies- your anti-CIO stance, your views about the “terrible twos,” your research about recalled products and most of all, your input on formula feeding and how it IS NECESSARY sometimes. Without you and your experience, I would have a really big, huge, enormous (even more so) bias against formula. Because of you, I know it’s the only option that some people have, regardless of how much they want to BF. :)

27 | elc

September 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 am

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If you really want the answer to the question of why people don’t care about the environment, you will have to be willing to take some of the blame. Your (and so many others like you) holier-than-thou attitude is so off-putting that you are alienating people from your message. While I doubt that there can be many valid and worthy arguments made for deliberately trashing the earth, NO ONE likes being judged, put-down, or insulted. It has never been my experience that talking to or about people with smugness and an air of superiority will win them over, regardless the cause. Some may even have the knee-jerk reaction to your hostile rants as to START using way too much fabric softener just to piss you off back. Are YOU wracked with guilt?

As far as more concrete reasons? Poo wringing is the most concrete reason for “sposies”. The few “blow-outs” we’ve had have convinced me of that. No way, no how, no guilt. This job is hard enough without being completely disgusting as well. I’m sure Ash’s organic vegan diet makes his turds so pristine that when he communicates to you that he’s ready you hold a whole-grain cracker under his ass, but you need a reality check if you think that scrubbing poo is a duty that most women will add to the already-demanding job of motherhood. Never mind the fathers!! Thanks but no thanks.

28 | Joan

September 2nd, 2008 at 12:34 pm

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elc,
Are you kidding me? Your response to this conversation is a fuck you to Gillian? So what you are saying is, because you don’t like being judged on selfish practices that endanger the earth we are to leave to our children and hopefully future generations is to endanger it even more? That is the most ass backwards lack of logic I have ever heard in my life.
To do anything that protects the future and health of our children in the hopes that they do not end up weraing masks to breath or end up living beside a shitty diaper filled landfill is not being smug, it is being responsible and a caring parent
I’m not saying that parents that don’t put the effort in do not love their children, but I am saying that if there is one thing that you should be willing to go out of your way for, to try to ensure a beautiful furure for, wouldn’t it be your children?
And to whine about having to deal with washing baby poo off diapers is the most childish thing I have ever heard…Wait no, I have to retract that, your pathetic and childish rant about Ash’s “pristine” eliminations is so beyond childish I shudder to think as you as an equal, as a parent..
Grow up, and try to think of your child’s future

29 | elc

September 2nd, 2008 at 7:01 pm

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I’m just saying that attacking hard-working Moms for using disposable diapers doesn’t seem like a productive way to save the environment. Why don’t you start a campaign to make disposables biodegradeable instead? Or work to pass legislature to ban them? Or NICELY tell people about the harm they cause/effects they have? There are plenty of ways to protect our children’s future without all the finerpointing, and yes, smugness.
Come on - you laughed at the poo joke! It was funny!

30 | rebecca

September 2nd, 2008 at 9:26 pm

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i feel honored that you think i have influenced your parenting style. :) i also don’t think there was any smugness in your tone, but i would imagine those with a guilty conscience would try to accuse you of that to take the spot light off themselves….

31 | choice

September 2nd, 2008 at 9:27 pm

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#27, what has you so pissed off? if it isn’t already obvious to you, you really failed at proving your point towards ‘nobody liking judgements, put-downs, or insults’ when your post is saturated in all of those things…… could you come off any more threatened?

32 | elc

September 3rd, 2008 at 6:32 am

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“I don’t expect everyone in the world to be a composting, recycling, cloth diapering, all-natural cleaning products, plastic-avoiding person (like I am)”

“did you know that fabric softener is bad? Do you still use it? (We don’t.)”

The definition of smug is to be “highly self-satisfied”. If you don’t hear it….”I shudder to think of you as an equal”.

Look, Gillian said she didn’t understand, and I am trying to provide honest answers from an alternative viewpoint. She condemned convenience as some sort of crime, and categorized all disposable diaper users as not caring about the environment. Convenience is a HUGE motivator for most Moms I know, hell most people I know, so dismissing the obvious isn’t going to help her gain the understanding she seeks. She’s talking about throttleing people, and somehow I’m pissed off? Yes, my comments served her nasty tone right back, but it was also tongue-in-cheek, a little overboard to illustrate the point that no one likes to be insulted.

33 | typealice

September 3rd, 2008 at 10:03 am

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Elc,
You do know that you’re supposed to shake off the poop from sposie diapers, right? Surprise! You are!

It’s not like I fucking handwash Ash’s dirty diapers (and if you haven’t read- we are also ECing, so he rarely poops in his diapers as it is- it’s gone directly in the toilet/potty since he was FIVE MONTHS OLD) .

I still don’t understand why you think that CDing is so much more of a hassle than disposibles. You’re the one that has to make special trips to the store to buy more when you run out. Cloth diapering *literally* takes up about 1.5 minutes of my day (putting them in the washer, taking them out and putting them in the dryer). There is NOTHING inconvenient about them, and I know because I used sposies for the first three months of Ash’s pristine-ass life.

Ash is vegan because I’m vegetarian and don’t believe that animals have to be killed so that we can live. I also do all the cooking, so it’s my choice. When and if he chooses to eat meat once he understands where it comes from, he will eat ethically-raised meat that hopefully is as pure and natural as possible.

If you’re right and people add more fabric softener to their loads of laundry because I said it’s bad for the environment, well, hahahhaha they’ve just proven their immaturity and STUPIDITY, and I will take no blame for that. Holy shit, who would even DO that??

I’m sure you love your offspring as much as the rest of us (I hope so, anyway), but what I was saying was that I just don’t UNDERSTAND why you wouldn’t choose organic over non (when it’s the same price or pennies more) and other small steps. I was not trying to be “better” than anyone, despite how personally you took this post.

And if you want to come in here and insult my kid (and his pristine poop) one more time, you’ll be banned. You’re warned.

34 | Erica

September 3rd, 2008 at 10:47 am

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Gillian: Organic food only costs pennies more in Canada???? Damn, if it wasn’t so cold I’d have to move there ;) Organic food here costs 1.5-2x as much as conventionally grown produce. I think that has more to do with price gouging than cost of production, though; the supermarket had organic oranges from California which cost DOUBLE the price of conventional — and they were imported from SOUTH AFRICA!!

That being said, for a toddler who eats toddler-sized portions, overall buying organic shouldn’t cost more than a few bucks extra a week. My husband and I, however, consume such a staggering amount of fruits and vegetables that it just isn’t practical.

35 | typealice

September 3rd, 2008 at 10:51 am

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Erica: Sorry, I mean baby/toddler sized portions. Last week I bought Ash a peach for $2.50! Yuck. However, sweet potatoes, rice noodles, carrots etc are just about the same price as non-organic.

I wouldn’t be able to buy organic food for all of us, no.

36 | elc

September 3rd, 2008 at 6:38 pm

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Gillian, first I want to say that if you felt I was insulting your baby, I wasn’t and never will.

OK - so down and dirty, my personal objections to cloth diapering are born of both convenience and cleanliness.
I am not afraid to handle shit (really- I was a nursing assistant in an Alzhiemer’s nursing home for 4+ years during college, so I dare say I have EXTENSIVE experience dealing with every kind of shit-incident that you can imagine), I just don’t like to. Feces IS gross, many types of germs and diseases are spread by improper handling of it. My official position is the less I and my family come in contact with it the better.

No - I don’t dump the poop off the diapers into the toilet, I’m not sure why I would. I’ve never heard of it before - not even in the nursing home! When I remove a diaper I roll the top of diaper down over soiled areas and reuse tape to seal shut into a tight little ball. I throw them out and I empty our trash every night. The few times poop has gotten on his outfits, I HAVE hand-washed them or thrown them away, because I wouldn’t want to get crap all over his other stuff or my washing machine. It was a huge chore - not just washing the clothes, but then sterilizing and bleaching the utility sink afterwards (which is why I ended up trashing some not-favorite outfits).

I don’t make special trips to the store. The diapers come about 200 to a box, which lasts roughly a month. I shop much more frequently than that and just pick them up when I’m running low (maybe 50 left)- I’ve never run out.

This is all really beside-the-point. I am sure that these reasons, while easy to understand, may not be “good enough” for you or many of your readers. That’s fine, I’m not trying to convince you to use disposables, I’m just saying that parenting is hard enough and that no one should be chastised or wracked with guilt, for using modern conveniences that make that job easier.

37 | typealice

September 3rd, 2008 at 6:56 pm

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Parenting is hard, there’s no question. Cloth diapering isn’t nearly as hard as you’re making it out to be. Like I said, it takes me 1.5 minutes to do the wash every day, and I never handle poop.

The worst I ever have to do is take our “doody spoon” and scrape it off. Takes 10 seconds. Not a big deal. At least to me.

If you wanted a life of convenience, maybe you shouldn’t have had kids.

Also, they do make biodegradable disposibles. If you actually care about the earth, maybe making that change would be suitable for someone like you. And they’re a lot safer than the gel you’re exposing your child(ren) to.

http://www.seventhgeneration.com/
http://www.naty.se/naty.aspx

38 | Roslyn

September 5th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

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Gillian,

I applaud your efforts. I do. However, I hate that having a child somehow gives women a free pass to be critical of other women. What works for you (EC, BF, or whatever) may not work for other families. It’s so easy to make women feel insecure - especially pregnant women and new moms. It’s one thing to do things that
directly harm your child and their well being, but being green can be a huge undertaking for some people who
already have a huge amount on their plate. Know any single moms with 2 or 3 children? I do. And inbetween their 2 or 3 jobs and 2 or 3 kids they can’t be as green as you, you, or you. So why berate women whose only choice of a market in a 50 mile radius is Wal-mart?

You used the term “parent” throughout your blog but since the title was “Wal-mart Moms” clearly you are holding women to a higher standard than men.

Women have enough shit to deal with in this world without continually trying to bring each other down.

Seriously.

39 | Gillian

September 5th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

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Roslyn: My issue is with people who don’t care about the environment. Choosing biodegradable cleaners over toxic ones is not a choice that takes extra time and is not inconvenient- as mentioned by someone else, Clorox offers a “green” alternative, and it’s with all the other cleaners for almost the identicle price.

I understand that some women cannot breastfeed, whether it’s because of physical problems, drugs that are necessary but can’t be taken while bf, etc, but there are a LOT LOT LOT of mothers who don’t bf because they don’t want to or are COMPLETELY misinformed about how to do it properly or how often you need to do it when the baby is still young and a zillion other reasons. It’s all about education.

My husband makes the choice to be eco-friendly as well, and really enjoys our parenting style, but c’mon, moms are often the more active parent. You know that.

If you expect all parents to gather around each other singing kumbaya just because we have offspring, I think you’re crazy. It’s never going to happen. People who don’t care about the Earth don’t like me because of my views and I tend to not like them because of their practices. Mostly- I JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND THEM.

40 | Erica

September 6th, 2008 at 10:38 am

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Roslyn,

I, of course, do not speak for Gillian, but I do want to respond to what you brought up (I’ve been following this whole comment thread with interest!)

I think that this is the point Gillian made that resonates most with me: “Now, I don’t expect everyone in the world to be a composting, recycling, cloth diapering, all-natural cleaning products, plastic-avoiding person (like I am), but the people who really, honestly don’t give a shit about doing ANYTHING? I don’t get you.”

Personally, I don’t judge the particular choices that an individual makes, provided that at the core, they DO care about the environment and at least make some kind of effort. I primarily use all-natural cleaning products, but I still keep a jug of CLR around for rust and hard water stains (nothing beats it). I use SLS-free shampoo but I can’t get away from my Phyto Pro styling products. I carry reusable shopping bags but I still use paper towels. I primarily eat local, but I can’t resist a pint of fresh figs from California when they’re in season. And so on and so forth.

Not everyone may agree with the specific choices I make, and I may not understand some of the choices of others, and I’m okay with that. I’m NOT okay with just flat-out not giving a shit, and as evidenced by the comment thread to which Gillian linked, it’s a shockingly pervasive point of view. We could go back and forth all day dissecting individual decisions — choice of laundry detergent, choice of dishwashing liquid, choice of cloth diapes vs sposies — but ultimately, being green is about setting a consistant trend in the way you live your life and I hope that everyone strives for that. Your hypothetical single mom needs to shop at Wal-Mart? Fine. I just hope she declines a plastic bag if all she’s purchasing is a jug of Tide. Get what I’m saying?

And the thing is, this isn’t about passing judgement. If someone doesn’t EC or co-sleep or babywear, ultimately, that’s not my problem. But if someone nonchalantly trashes the planet? That affects me, my loved ones, and the other species with which we’re sharing this planet.

41 | typealice

September 6th, 2008 at 10:41 am

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What she said!!!

WELL SAID, ERICA!!! :D

42 | Roslyn

September 6th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

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Erica,

Well said indeed, but you missed my point entirely. My issue is that Gillian is clearly holding women to a higher standard than men and is berating women for not making the same choices that she makes. Fundamentally I agree with you and I try to be green and do my part; however I do not undertand why you’re tearing women down. I think there is a much better way to get your point across.

And as far as those comments on that other page, well I think they’re just rallying to support their friend for the most part. Maybe you can understand that.

43 | typealice

September 6th, 2008 at 3:39 pm

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Roslyn:

You’ve obviously missed the point of my ENTIRE post.

I am not holding women at a higher standard than men, at all. I think women tend to make more child rearing decisions than men, partially because they’re the ones carrying the child and who are supposed to be responsible for the feeding of the child for the first six months of its life. I believe men just follow the woman’s lead most often (if they’re even around).

I’m not tearing ANYONE down. I didn’t say they weren’t worthy of living, I didn’t say they were shitty people, I didn’t say they were stupid and made poor decisions- I just said that I didn’t UNDERSTAND them. That’s all! Full stop!

And as for Sundry’s readers- whatever, she’s a popular mommyblogger, hundreds of people read her- they’re hardly her “friends.” I think they agree with her because they are actually tired of hearing about how they should be green and they’re all voicing their similar opinions because everyone else makes them feel guilty because they know they’re not living in a manner in which they *should* be.

And if you’re insinuating that Erica is only posting agreeing posts with mine because she’s my “friend,” fucking get over yourself and realize that people have similar opinions to mine and I don’t care if they voice them or not. No one is here to impress anyone.

44 | Kerri

October 14th, 2008 at 4:59 pm

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I could not agree with this blog more! I stumbled upon this blog at a time when I have been constantly worrying about what kind of cloth diaper I want to use. I am ten weeks pregnant and I have been trying to find some kind of forum/message board type deal for parents who care about the environment for some suggestions/advice. I don’t want to end up hating cloth diapering (or whatever other green choices I make) because of getting a crappy kind. Does anybody have suggetions regarding cloth diapering brands, and/or more importantly websites/resources I can use?

I have time for research but being pointed in the right direction helps!

Thanks Gillian for the blog, and to everybody cares about our planet enough to take care of it- I appreciate it!

45 | typealice

October 14th, 2008 at 5:03 pm

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I really love BumGenius. They’ve got great inserts, and last from newborn right until they’re toilet trained! I love pocket diapers.

So glad you found this blog. You should sign up to my attahment parenting website to talk to other moms who care about the environment and have really great parenting views… ap-mamas.com

Congrats on your pregnancy! Welcome to the ride of your life, haha.

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About

I'm Gillian, a Nova Scotian woman with a son named Ash (born 09/07) and a wife to Clive. I am what they call an Attachment Parent; I breastfeed, wear my baby as much as possible, cosleep, cloth diaper and practice elimination communication. I have very strong parenting views. We are raising Ash as an organic vegetarian. I care about the environment and do what I can to reduce my carbon footprint and set a good example for others, especially my child.

I'm proudly drug free, but can't say that I have always been. My early 20s were comprised mostly of travelling- I've lived and worked everywhere from West Africa to the Caribbean. I currently run AP Mamas, a site dedicated to attachment parenting and G Slings, my sustainable sling company.